Interesting interview with Doug Casey

http://www.caseyresearch.com/editorial.php?page=articles/doug-casey-answers-hard-questions-about-hard-times&ppref=GLD419ED0911C

I usally dont listen to these interviews with market news letter writers but Casey does have some insight and in this 

particular interview Casey is not walking the walk.

I feel his recommendations and conclusions are probably correct.

When people begin to start recommending let it collapse and cut the big box government agencies such as the Pentagon and the CIA

by 90% we can be sure we are not far from going over the cliff.

Fwd: ISI? Bad ISI! and now more

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/27/world/asia/pakistanis-tied-to-2007-attack-on-americans.html

The plot thickens or is it curdling?

This incident is from 2007, and just now getting coverage in the US press.

It seems we are spoon fed what 'they' want us to know.

This probably indicates the decision has already been made to cut the Packy's loose.

Or is it the Packy's have decided to cut the Empire loose?

In my first msg it is indicated my speculation the Packy's have cut a deal with China to pick up the slack

for the US Empire who has been paying big brides to Pakistan for years.

So if we are going to get and indication of where things are going for the RWB Empire in Afghanistan, i will

speculate this is as close an indication of the forced shift that is taking place.

And yes, the Empire is not winning either on the ground or at the bribing.

No one has mentioned that China is behind all of this and why should they?

But if we look at it from the money angle, billions are still billions and though the Pakyies may have felt insulted 

and don't like being bombed from drones. We'll billions are still billions.

So someone had to step in with a better deal that they could live with and i would think

Chinese money plus oil, plus essential equipment and the assurance that they had a ally in China

when dealing with India is allot of assurance that this is the time to change masters.

Pakistan may end up as a power in the region rather than land pirates as they now 

are considered.

Whats in it for China? How about bye, bye US Empire in Asia?

And this would open allot of other avenues for China heading towards the middle east.

Then theirs all those countries ending in 'Stan' and most of them have oil and minerals.

It looks tempting to me.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: larry 
Date: Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 7:42 PM
Subject: ISI? Bad ISI!


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/23/world/asia/mullen-asserts-pakistani-role-in-attack-on-us-embassy.html

We'll this maybe more contrived on the part of US intelligence and Pentagon than it appears.

They are not doing anything that will be effective to counter the ISI with these: "We are Shocked!" announcements;

that their dear ally Pakistan is playing other games besides the ones the US wants to play.

Are they going to go to war with Pakistan? I don't think so!

I can recall a couple of incidents in recent history and one such as the strafing of the USS Liberty in 67 by the Israels.

We just covered it up after the two Israel planes where driven off.

Casualties? was it 179 US sailors.? and it was no mistake of identity.

What has worked with Pakistan in the past has been bribes by the US ...and in the billions.

But i think Pakistan has it's own agenda with regards to Afghanistan and they just want the Empire out ASAP.

And we can be sure some discussion regarding the eviction of the Empire has taken place by other big players along with Pakistan.

Russia and China would probably be very logistically supportive of Pakistan as neither wants the US in Asia.

And I'm sure they would be more than supportive of Pakistan if it decides to be 'assertive' with the US.

Supportive might mean commodities such as oil and coal and industrial equipment. And these are all things the US doesn't have to give.

Pakistan has never been a US colony and their are few things Pakistan's wants or that they like about the 'Crusader Empire'.

So ISI being sloppy and giving operates cell phones to call them just doesn't sound like they didn't know who had what and where they where calling from.

I just don't think they care what the US knows or does as they see the US in the this area as history and they have the backing to know let the Pentagon and the CIA know it.

The Drones have been very effective but the Packy's don't like whats happening and they want total control and so they are upping the anty.

Fwd: Con game?

http://kunstler.com/blog/2011/09/punked-world.html

Some good questions from Kunstler, and also something to ponder.

The very wealthy have continued to reap enormous profits as the rest of

the people began to sink in a hole.

Actually, the 'middle' class since 1980 has increased their wealth by 8%. The top 5% has increased their wealth by 43%

in the same period.

Here in Oregon it is becoming ever more apparent where that sink hole is located.

While traveling through the central (Willamette) valley i noticed all the towns now 

have very trashy or run down trailer camps though they are called Mobile Home 'parks'.

These are not the retired of Arizona or Florida with that 'bit extra' every month as the cushion.

These are the growing numbers who probably once had jobs or some military time and now have run 

the course of benefits and possibilities.

And they appear to be floundering, with the walk to the nearby 'convience' store the days 

recreational outing between rain showers. 

In the California central valley their is the same situation. Lots of small trashvilles near ever town.

Then the out was to send the kids to the military and maybe dad mows lawns in town.

Always lots of flags and good ole boy slogans seemed to pervail.

No more or not from what I'm seeing, as the flag is middle class and now they are in a trash class.

Of course, Oregon once had lumber mills in all these small towns and now they have less and less.

The larger towns i noticed had the ticky tacky MH Parks as well,

but they also have the new corporate mall shopping area where the big boxes have been set down. Not a good long term

forecast for the no place to go towns.

It feels like they have hooked up a cancer to the sides of these towns and it continues to feed while the towns continue to die.

Some people who i get mail from seem to equated the flag, corporations and of course the current belief system to the mercantile system.

I guess if we had a king or a warrior class ruling rather than the corporate bankers they would stand in line to lick their feet as well.

ISI? Bad ISI!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/23/world/asia/mullen-asserts-pakistani-role-in-attack-on-us-embassy.html

We'll this maybe more contrived on the part of US intelligence and Pentagon than it appears.

They are not doing anything that will be effective to counter the ISI with these: "We are Shocked!" announcements;

that their dear ally Pakistan is playing other games besides the ones the US wants to play.

Are they going to go to war with Pakistan? I don't think so!

I can recall a couple of incidents in recent history and one such as the strafing of the USS Liberty in 67 by the Israels.

We just covered it up after the two Israel planes where driven off.

Casualties? was it 179 US sailors.? and it was no mistake of identity.

What has worked with Pakistan in the past has been bribes by the US ...and in the billions.

But i think Pakistan has it's own agenda with regards to Afghanistan and they just want the Empire out ASAP.

And we can be sure some discussion regarding the eviction of the Empire has taken place by other big players along with Pakistan.

Russia and China would probably be very logistically supportive of Pakistan as neither wants the US in Asia.

And I'm sure they would be more than supportive of Pakistan if it decides to be 'assertive' with the US.

Supportive might mean commodities such as oil and coal and industrial equipment. And these are all things the US doesn't have to give.

Pakistan has never been a US colony and their are few things Pakistan's wants or that they like about the 'Crusader Empire'.

So ISI being sloppy and giving operates cell phones to call them just doesn't sound like they didn't know who had what and where they where calling from.

I just don't think they care what the US knows or does as they see the US in the this area as history and they have the backing to know let the Pentagon and the CIA know it.

The Drones have been very effective but the Packy's don't like whats happening and they want total control and so they are upping the anty.

Important new video

http://fairewinds.com/

This video has current information we all need to consider and then pass along.

And this includes those folks who usually state they don't have time!

And as well those who candidly admit: I don't want to know, and besides what could i do

about it? Which

And of course the large group who have found the "Answer"

they tell me is all part of gods grand plan, and then that usually dribbles on to

Apocalypse and "the 'saved' will be going home".

 If you happen to ask them are any of these responses (some folks use more than one) suitable if we are considering future generations and the other life forms on the earth? That's when it gets sticky and the discussion slips into that person of color in the White House or those tax cheats are running our country. Which actually is referring to welfare moms or some such.

So question is when the grand children are glowing from radiation which the old folks said was 'no problem' will these kids also see it

 as: No problem?

For a broader perspective their seems to be three recognised near future calamities which are frequently discussed by people who are concerned regarding our future:

The evident world economic collapse.

The evident world collapse of a cheap energy source which allows 

industrial nations to continue at a high level of function for millions of the citizens.

And that's various forms of oil but primarily defined as crude oil.

And the last is really two prong. The world population at seven billion and soon going to nine.

And the human induced climate change.

And now what is again raised here on Fairwinds site is the nuclear radiation issue which will last for thousand of years.

And will easily be induced by US corporate built, managed and operated power generating plants around the world.

And in this case 35 reactors which are the identical design as the failed reactors at Fukishima.

Apparently our NRC is similar to that in Japan as they are both controlled by the corporations they are expected to regulate.

getting Greasy

http://www.hussmanfunds.com/wmc/wmc110919.htm

For anyone interested in where it is going for Greece, the EU and also right here in Flag land. I think you will find this is really a good essay to consider.

See the second chart of what happened with Argentina when they where being eviscerated and it is somewhat of an indication of what we will probably see happen with

Greece's financial markets.

Hussman speculates the EU will kick the can down the ditch for awhile before they give it up.

Their will be some reevaluation as to who will remain in the money defined EU and then after the sorting

they will close the castle gates on the trash countries.

 PIIGS are not invited to the party as they come in on a platter.

And of course US investment banks have been right in their offering their investors heads for slaughter, as they thought they would be making a easy buck

and be able to then run with  the loot. They have been hedging the EU loans is what it sounds like to me.

And it may turn out not even the US government is going to bail them for their foreign mistakes.

So will this be a third step down and into the financial muck? Like in bubble, bubble and gulp! 

And will the peoples money such as pension funds be involved?

We'll this article didn't state it, but these investment banks never use their own money.

Why should they when they can borrow at low or no interest from the Fed, or just use the funds coming in every month from the 

retirement funds?

If we stand back and look at this situation. For the hedge funds, it's just a game where they can write the game rules and then click the keys 

while they play.

 And a basic premise for games is the team owners don't get hurt as that's what players are for to take the hits.

Fresh for you

http://www.fastcompany.com/1779611/priming-whole-foods-derren-brown

Free movie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFsmmMTMCHU

Cassandra's curse! is still functioning.

http://www.energybulletin.net/stories/2011-09-15/cassandras-curse-how-limits-growth-was-demonized

Sometimes these things will happen and it seems best to just accept them when it does.

For the past few days i have had a couple of recurring thoughts which where both worrisome and not easily resolved.

The story of Cassandra seemed to remind me that some of the issues we are now being confronted with can not be 

easily shared with others. Because to present them they are implying doom in our collective future and the public doesn't want to hear or know of such information and thats even if there name is included in the invoice.

And the other reacquiring thought concerned the seventies significant book: The Limits of Growth, and which for me was disturbing at the time.

But then today, i found this current (reprint) of an excellent article that had appeared a couple of years ago at the Energy Bulletin site.

And which puts both bothersome thoughts together.

So it's now more like 'mystery solved'. I had just not been listening as i had the information all along but had consciously forgotten

that i had read some of these articles when they originally appeared in 2008.

And whats changed since then? We'll, i concluded they are still chopping at Cassandra (see illustration) and of course even the later editions of: the Limits of Growth.

And it seems when you combine the Oligarchy, Fox Media and Jesus' .....on the spot spokesperson, and they are all in opposition to shouting out!  You gotta conclude someones listening and they don't like what they are hearing.

So if you are still interested in what the self proclaimed 'master of the system; don't want you to know then read the enclosed article(s).

Ignorance is strenght

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuC_4mGTs98

Under a green sky. Peter Ward

http://news.yahoo.com/scientists-bacteria-spreading-warming-oceans-142213062.html;_ylc=X3oDMTNoMjk2cTVmBF9TAzEzNjk3MDUxBGFjdANtYWlsX2NiBGN0A2EEaW50bAN1cwRsYW5

To support the conclusions offered in the above article i suggest we refer to a number of other authors and which i will list a few below.

Peter Ward teaches at the University Washington, Ward describes the documented history of the oceans when the temperatures have risen in the past and the chemical structure of the ocean became significantly acid.

The seas turned into a thick green viscus soup and nothing but bacteria was able to survive.

This has happened a number of times in the distant past of the earths history and has been described by more than one researcher.

Under a Green Sky, happens to be the title of a recent book by Ward on this subject.

The other phenomena which is occurring is the.... melting of the enormous fields of methane hydrate at the bottom of oceans

and under the tundra in Siberia and Northern Alaska. This is considered to be very potentially dangerous to... all life.

Methane hydrate is defined as frozen methane and which is flammable and explosive.

And if that wasn't enough, methane also is 23 times more CO2 producing than just burning hydro carbons as we do with engine exhaust.

The magnitude of the fields of frozen methane are beyond our comprehension since this is not an area that can be easily investigated.

And then we also have the PH of the oceans changing from alkaline to acid. The oceans are an enormous CO2 sink both from continental runoff and atmospheric pollution.

Ocean life cannot sustain in a acid solution. 

Actually, we give geographic ocean areas separate names but they are really all one ocean and with relatively the same solution levels.

And one of the few things that the movie : The Day After Tomorrow, 

probably got right was the ocean conveyor current which is very evident in the Atlantic is 

temperature sensitive as the difference between the ocean water 'layers' generates a warm current and which 

increases the ambient continental temperature of Europe and the British Ilse.

If this temperature induced current is disrupted and actually it has been is the distant past, the land climates will again be seriously affected.

When inland water from the Great Lakes in the past entered the North Atlantic ocean due to snow melt this 

affected the conveyor current. And it's speculated the engine stopped, but then fortunately resumed. '

The science journalist Elizabeth Kolbert, interviewed the 'field scientist' and she then described their conclusions in: Field Notes on a Catastrophe. published: 2006 

Gregory Benford, a science professor at UC Irvine has also written a number of award winning SciFi novels.

And as i recall one published in the early nineties describes a red tide in the 'Pacific'  ocean that expands and then takes on

a life of its own. The oceans chemistry apparently had become a growth solution for the algae bloom.

So Benford was describing what was suspected would be happening in the future.

All of this comes under the heading of 'feed back loops'. Though not the primary cause nor the predictable result of some 

significant triggered earth climate phenomena that could not be directly predicted.

And so happenings such as ocean temperature increases may trigger more frequent cyclones and hurricanes, and maybe experienced where neither had been experienced before.

When senior independent scientist such as James Lovelock, conclude the surface species survival odds are limited. We should consider that it's possible these people who investigate the 'earth system sciences' may have justifiable reasons to reach these dismal conclusions.

Earth system science, is the term which is used when scientist are publishing papers on the Gaia theory.

I think it is correct that this was first formally proposed in 1972 by: James Lovelock.

And what it comes down to is the earth is self aware in the sense it continually is managing the earths surface conditions for it's optional well being.

The earth when experiencing that purpose maybe termed: Gaia, and which was the name of the earth goddess which the Greeks had adopted.

The earths surface animals can experience a role in the earth balance, but are not considered a necessity for the earths well being.

Gaia is indifferent to those who dwell on the surface and is not inflicting punishment when it rebalances to its preferred steady state.

We may reach the conclusion the earth is not here just for us and actually be able to justify that view point.

As to spiritual interaction or spiritual awareness those living close to the earth seem far more likely to be suited to reach any spiritual conclusions.

Though i would offer that the Panspermia concepts which is defining cosmic originating seem to sustain.

For those not familiar with Panspemia Cosmic Theory and it is obscure, if we consider this planet is floating through a sea of particles and which contain consciousness from the universe in general, then a seeding process is continually being experienced.

Terrance McKenna, (recently deceased) Rupert Sheldrake and Ralph Abraham maybe considered relatively current authors proposing versions of this general theory which includes Morphagentic Energy theory and Abraham's definitions and conclusions on chaos.

And i recognise this is long and rambling, but describing such dismal possibilities for the earths future, needs some balance and spirituality is probably the best option to consider.

.

very strange or is it?

http://heal-thyself.ning.com/profiles/blogs/green-med-info-com

Defining sane is time sensitive

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=193987

Even a few months ago what Dennenger is proposing for our own national economic disaster would have been considering 

bazaar.

Well maybe someway adaptable to the land of Euro PIIGS. But not here where not paying debt in any form and even those bordering 

or actually criminal was considered right up their with mom and her apple pie.

But today the situation has more than fast forwarded to the status of a board game and not even Park Place is safe 

from the auctioneers block.

That's the practical of how are we going to wiggle out of the national bus ride to hell.

And don't think the bus will be leaving tomorrow and from any designated suburbs.

And so much for disclaimers, And since the game was fixed from the beginning and with the suckers defined even before 

the dice where shook.  What Dennenger is proposing is being seriously considered by those floundering but still have their heads above 

water.

And for those who where already jettisoned from the entrails of the so called 'middle class' they sanely have given up hope of ever being more than 

marginal renters.

Dennenger makes the significant point that this is really a mute issue for the banks as banks are boxes which sell debt and of course pass it along

and in this case to the retiree's who are numbers in employee pension funds. And if it isn't extracted in that way it will appear as further cuts in 

government subsidies entitlements.

So getting clear of the twin towers seemed safe at the time but then the residual problems became apparent. And this is what is now happening right here

on main street. 

Euro

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8755881/Germany-and-Greece-flirt-with-mutual-assured-destruction.html

Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, is always worth pondering.

This is one of the few recent major articles that is sympathetic to the Greeks.

He outlines Europe's options and is actually able to offer a couple which are 

also optimistic and maybe even possible.

Though we still come away with the feeling that the sinking crisis will prevail for some time.

And only prolonged crisis will force a response.

Who cares as it's Europe?

Don't believe it. The US financial sector is up to their ears in this mess and when Europe goes

that sucking sound will be the US trying to follow the Euro down the rat hole.

Feel good save money!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv2Z3UWYJKk

Greece going under!

http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/09/news/international/greek_default_fears_return/index.htm

And understandably asking others to hold it's hand as it goes down.

If the chart doesn't tell us where it is what would we need to

to recognise it's the long green mile?

The end is near, to put it in 'biblical' terms.

Depression ahead

http://www.321gold.com/editorials/schiff/schiff090711.html

Disregard the comparative dialogue concerning gold and paper.

As most folks view gold or PM's  as though they are just part of the current

investor bubble and on the verge of popping.

What might catch someones attention is Schiff is clearly stating and with the documentation

that we are not in a recession. This is economic depression which we are now experiencing.

And i will add just the begging of significantly hard times.

I surely am not advising anyone as to what they might do with their money in any form.

But with regards to what you and don't need this is the time to unload the burden for something you will need.

Or you maybe able to actually trade in the future for item of substince.

Guys like Schiff are serious traders, and they don't tell people the 'Bucks' going the way of the Buffalo unless the herd is already on the move

and going south.

Oregon econ experts opinons on the possible recovery of the state economy.

http://www.statesmanjournal.com/article/20110908/NEWS/109080357/Oregon-experts-offer-economic-advice?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CNews

A collective and weak response to a serious issue. 

These guys are not stating how bad it really is nor are they

willing to step out of the flock and acknowledge it is going to get much worse.

Nationally the government debt is 14 trillion and which is beyond comprehension.

And then the national economy is in free fall, but we are told falling isn't painful,

it's the crash landing we want to avoid. Hey, i didn't say it made sense.

Agriculture work programs and maintaining infrastructure such as roads and buildings mentioned as job sources will become secondary.

Renewable agriculture will be where we are going as the petroleum based economy and a personal high energy society becomes unsustainable. And apparently not because of Oregon planning or state leadership or any guidance from the economist quoted in this article.

Peak oil ( it's happened) will eventually create more than jobs, it will again create a labor intensive economy.

This is easily explained but for those trying to just put 'it' back together it doesn't seem to be comprehended even as a possibility.

I'm sure not implying we will like where we are going but it seems to be a given if we are talking positive issues.

Home construction is dead! Lets accept it! 

No jobs, no cheap energy or reliable loans. So who's going to build for those who can't buy?

It was the last of the bubbles.

We cant tie the load on a dead horse and expect to go anywhere.

So maybe people need to hear it again! Where we are headed and soon is a new frontier without plentiful energy at affordable rates.

If the US military acknowledges this you would have thought the suits might have heard tell the buckets got a hole in it.

Maybe 'Think Britain in 1940' and which was... no imports of fuel or food,

It was grow it or starve.

That just might be a starting place at a dinner plate near you.

Some people may say: That was a war! Well, for people loosing everything and also not being offered reality

i believe they are seeing whats coming as a war on the people.

People are not stupid! Stupid makes us more eligible for die off, so it's a last choice for most folks.

But all of us expect the leaders to either show basic comprehension of reality

when they act or tell us what we maybe confronted with. And that doesn't seem to be happening.

The response that the public is left with when leadership is lacking is rage and chaos.

London couldn't happen in a civilised place like Portland, oh yeah! 

I believe that is what the Londoner's where

saying as they watched the middle east followed by Greece and Italy go in to a fiery disorder!

Sixty percent of US crude oil comes from 'over there!'

When that stops because of the whale shit dollar and no foreign lenders for oil credit.

That's when the wheels quit turning as the lights go out.

And again as to oil. Their are a few other reasons it will soon be history. The expense of drilling at impossible sites and also the large fields

are becoming significantly less productive. All of the big fields are now old and pumping water as well as oil.

We will eventually grow our own food and locally.  And for the energy needed in the crop fields it will be people physically working.

This country has never experienced mass hunger or famine. But a few days without oil based energy and nothing turns, and no food gets to the table.

Doomer? No, just reality! Kicking the can down the road requires players who agree it is a game such as the 'economist' quoted here.

People may riot when they are angry because of lack of honesty from the leaders. Yes, frustration is pent up anger and collectively it becomes mob anger. And not just because the pots empty.

When people are told it's going to get better and it doesn't happens or.... it gets worse. Then they find themselves still out on the plank. That's not good for the suits, as someone was probably lying. and then the fires start and the heat spreads.

People may not have the answers needed and they may recognise the guy in the suit is clueless. But he better not be lying unless he wants to check the view from a rope over a tree limb.

A State Central bank is a given, if we are going to control credit locally.

B of A is organised crime!

And as well, tax the.... rich corporations... to make things happen.

When the troops are finally returned from the corporate sponsored wars...and that's if they actually bother to bring them back

from the 800 o/s bases, the reshuffling will begin.

Those Dudes will prompt a reality termed: Local armed chaos. 

"Wheres my job, house, and life?" And this is not 1973, when 'good vets' got a job or went back to school to ACTUALLY obtain work.

So any work programs will seem like the easy out for government as these Vets have been trained to take... as well as kill.

From my perspective the actual Doomers are those people who want to repeat what is or has failed.

And who also don't want to consider workable alternatives that meet the..... necessities..... of the people.

consider Sharon Astyk's conclusions.

http://scienceblogs.com/casaubonsbook/2010/07/energy_as_a_lens_to_view_the_w.php

This is not current ( i have seen this before) but it needs to be repeated for those who are puzzled by peoples continued lack of concern or response,

and that's with regards to what is ahead and for all of us.

What those waiting consider we will collectively be confronting is not something any of the usual emotional buffers

will dampen.

Keeping busy is best as a body and mind distraction and which justifies just about any trivia, though usually described as 'work'. 

Another regular is:  "I don't want to know!" Though sometimes phrased as: "I don't want to discuss this or can we talk about something else? And maybe followed by immediate justification such as: "I cant handle any more". And who will argue with these pious remarks?

Though they may throw in something about YOU are being negative...And any response to that is again a waste of energy, as the whole subject is based on the premise our future is negative.... and with out the usual option of a redeeming cycle.

Though none of this will work as the rocky road to descent seems to be the only one offered. And unfortunately, it is not furnished with rest stops even for the reluctant travelers.

I will not bother to describe the various Apocalypse and belief drivel folks tell themselves, as any subject with these folks may get a bible thumper's glib retort.

Fwd: Freddies, etc. WELL!

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: James
Date: Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 4:58 PM
Subject: Freddies, etc. WELL!
To: larry

Nice to see you. Here's the article.  Jim


http://www.truth-out.org/goodbye-all-reflections-gop-operative-who-left-cult/1314907779

Please ponder this!

http://www.kunstler.com/index.php

Dear friends; 

What's your take on the response and which is apparent when talking with folks that their seemingly evident reality is deteriorating,

while at the same moment their is no definable time or space that can be seen as the jumping off point.  

And then finding themselves sitting in that undefined puddle and some response expected, they may fall back to: It's the nations politics or from the more flip or at least in my opinion 'People lack Christian values' or some such vague melding of politics and again belief. 

And then with a vague reference to cycles, they may continue with: We will just have to wait and see.

Oh yes, their are distinct response variations, such as: I don't want to know as i cant do anything in response. And this is one of the more honest though acknowledged powerless positions. It becomes a..... general response, as the person just shuts down to... pleasure without pain.

Another favorite and which is not really ever voiced completely involves the 'childern'. If i don't look it may just go away, and besides looking involves looking at my own fear and I'm just holding on as it is!

Allot of prayer and rules usually clusters with this one, as it need constant reinforcement.

My own position and i do state it frequently that this is NOT just collapse of the current macro empire or even system.

System meaning: Economics, and which seems is a characteristic of someones once brilliant fantasy projection. 

For many people we are entering collapse of society induced by population, energy factors and climate change. The rest may be described as secondary.

Also. we may want to consider their are no classic Vandals at the gates, and waiting with cargo trucks to haul the booty back home. As the Vandals though apparent may have even less of a future than the former: Residents of the Horn of Plenty.

And it seems we are just know touching the edge of this somewhat undefinable feed back loop induced chaos state.

As D. Orlov recently stated:  The peak oil bell curve, is a..... graphic..... myth.

As yes, It was apparently a smooth classic assent until 2005 and then the production plateau and which we are now leaving. The decline and response will be very unpleasant, choppy and even undefinable until it has been experienced.

Alan Weisman's book: A World Without Us, may be one of the better descriptive essay's regarding our species demise. Though he describes the earth going on and supporting other life forms. Meaning once we leave.... the other species destruction ends and the healing begins. And though the song birds and the snakes will hardly miss us if this is the way it will go.

I think the surface cleansing by the earth will not be that selective as vengeance is not involved. Just earth stability and the balance of the earths elements.

What i am wondering, Is our species incapable of recognising and responding to it's own annihilation?

Though extinction maybe the better choice to describe our limited future and based on our dream like narrow awareness.

And the reason i raise this issue is their are numerous discussions, books, sites and response proposals by the involved people who we 

can name.  But the numbers involved are few who take it to the point that the current responses offered will not be effective.

Usually what happens in a major crisis of any sort the general public begins to respond and this may even be counter productive or misguided but even conscious turning away from a crisis is a statement of some sort.

The vacuum created by the lack of general discussion or emotional involvement is what i find disturbing. This is where the self defined demigods step forward to give people 'direction' while collecting power and money.

At times what i am hearing from people is: I'm waiting for...................blank, or then it drifts into certified delusional with Apocalypse or someones calender projections.

As i recall the Jews just wore the second coming to a frazzle and that's until someone else decided they could package the idea and start a new religion.

And of course offering much more than a chosen people concept waiting to meet YAHWEH on his return circuit through the cosmic ether.

And besides with regards to the 'new improved' sky god spin off:

What's better than having a luxury suburban skin color and sex preference Club Med, and Dang, just out of reach behind the clouds? But sure to be delivered if we will just say: Hey, count me in, or some such simple pledge of allegiance, of course while eating flesh and drinking blood and ogling the naked guy on the stick being tortured.

It's a very old plot but it seems still fills the theaters.

A hit up side the head

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/25-signs-that-the-financial-world-is-about-to-hit-the-big-red-panic-button

hurts!

But, it seems the alternative to a wake up call maybe a kick in the solar plexus.

And yes, I know and many times over."Oh, Larry don't be so negative. Try and see the 

optimistic (bright) side of things for a change. And on and on.

And don't feel singled out as i hear it frequently. And for a few i will sometimes respond with a question: What are you seeing in the state of the national or even the international economy that is encouraging or indicating this is just a dip or even a double dip

I have been told that when we get rid of that godless communist negro in the white house every thing will be fine.

what can you say to that?

Of course, if you are already down there with the whales composting facillity you may not feel much pain.

But few folks see themselves at this point in that down and dirty status.

My last msg and which i didn't send to many folks was a few suggestions on how to prepare for what's to come.

And it really came down to: Scrunch down from where ever you maybe today.

Even down on the bottom has possibilities if you understand where you are.

And to each his own when determining how to weather a storm that may not end for sometime.

And i say that because contraction feeds contraction.

But even if you continue with: It will be alright and besides, I'm quicker and maybe even smarter... so their!

Consider that even the best and most optimistic gamblers always hold back some chips for side bets.

curcumin.....M.D. Anderson cancer clinic

http://www.pdazzler.com/wp-content/pdf/curcumin-absorption.pdf